EP-141 Burt - A conversation with writer and director Joe Burke

Welcome And Why Parkinson’s Matters

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to I'm Not Dead Yet with Judy and Travis, a podcast about living an extraordinary life with extraordinary circumstances.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Welcome to the I'm Not Dead Yet Podcast. I'm your co-host, Travis Robinson. I was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease at age 35 in 2014.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

And I'm Judy Aris, your other co-host. My husband Sandy had Parkinson's disease for 18 years, and I was his care partner.

How Burt Became A Movie

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Today's episode we're speaking with Joe Burke, who is the director of the movie Burke.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Hi, Joe.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Hello, thank you. Hi Travis and Judy. Thank you for having me on.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Oh, we're excited to have you.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

So I think it would be good for people to kind of tell us, let's just start off like why you made this movie and how you even met Bert in the first place. I mean, Absolutely. Give us a little background on this.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

I will. So for the audience listening, the new movie's called Burt, B-U-R-T, inspired by a real life friend of mine and Oliver Cooper, who I wrote and produced it with. His name's Bert Berger. Bert's not an actor. He's a singer-songwriter who I met 15 years ago playing music at a restaurant near Malibu. And I got to know him over the years, you know, kind of a longer story shorter. I got to know him over the years and really just fell in love with this guy. You know, he never quite made it as a musician, meaning he never really recorded any albums. He moved to LA in 1974, was always playing open mics and restaurants and just perfect, beautiful personality, big smile, great music. Just a real special gem of a guy. And I was just very always inspired by him. And it got to a place where I was just at a point in my filmmaking career where I was just trying to think what's my next movie, what do I want to do next? Trying to make some slightly bigger films and wrote a couple scripts and pitched some TV shows. And you know, you get close on these things, but it never happens. And then kind of when push came to shove, I was sort of like, really just keep thinking about Bert. I'm like, let's just, you know, Oliver Cooper's like, I got like a little bit of money. He said $7,000, which is a very tiny budget for a movie. Everyone knows that. $7,000. Can we can we go make a movie with Bert for $7,000? And immediately I said, yes, let's go make it. We'll shoot it in one week. And that was it. And Bert was diagnosed with Parkinson's in me getting to know him over the years. And my dad, Steve Burke, also has Parkinson's. And Bert and my dad, Steve, are both the exact same age. So there's a lot of parallel there. And Burt is a father-son movie. And I was living with my dad when I made this movie. So a lot of parallels in that world.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Yeah. It's really interesting to me, you know, that you were willing to say, oh, $7,000. Let's make a movie. Most people would go, we can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Well, I would have too years prior. See, you get to a point in your career where desperation to just make anything, you know, comes into play. And, you know, I was pushing 40. I was about 38, 39 when we kind of went into this project. But also I was so inspired by Bert. And, you know, with the Parkinson's diagnosis, there was also a bit of a ticking clock because I knew I wanted the movie to honor him and his music and playing guitar, which he does. He plays three live songs on guitar in the movie, as you know, and a bunch of great other music in the film too by our composer Tim Rutilli. But, anyways, it was one of those things where it's like now or never, I was so inspired to do it, and I was so ready

Making A Feature For $7,000

SPEAKER_02 3:48

to do it. And so, yeah, we shot this beautiful film in seven days with a production budget of $7,000, three-person crew, but then it kind of like just took off, and we started playing festivals and traveling the country for a year, and now it just released last week, as you know, on Apple TV and Amazon, where everyone can rent and buy the movie. And a portion of the initial proceeds goes to PCLA, as you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Yeah, which is really great for PCLA, Parkinson's Community Los Angeles. We're excited about that. But you know, when I think about this, there's been a lot of movies over the years featuring stories about someone with Parkinson's. And generally, it's an actor that doesn't have PD, someone playing someone who does. And what I loved about this was it was so genuine to be able to see someone with PD. Travis, what about you? You're someone with Parkinson's. How did it feel to you to see someone with PD on screen?

SPEAKER_03 4:43

It was actually at first a little uncomfortable

Real Parkinson’s On Screen

SPEAKER_03 4:52

because it was like, oh yeah, I do that. Oh yeah, that must be how I look when I talk to someone. Yeah, it was an awakening for me in that regard.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Yeah, and a little bit confronting, right?

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Right. I think that's the interesting part of it. So, you know, for people with Parkinson's, it's giving them an opportunity to see that you're able to show what life can be like or a certain aspect of their life, which obviously can make you kind of uncomfortable. Because as we know, people with PD don't know what they look like, they don't know what they sound like, and they just don't see it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Yeah, I think that's that's a really insightful feedback there, Travis. I appreciate that. No, you're right. I mean, I think there's even a bigger thing where it's like for all of us, we don't, you know, until there's sort of a mirror in front of our own lives, our own mortality, our own existence, there is a little bit of that sort of, you know, maybe it's not ignorance is bliss, but we're so removed sometimes from ourselves in that way. And I think that even if there is an uncomfortableness, like Travis is saying, which I totally understand, I've been there in certain ways myself. There is also maybe a really beautiful thing about it, too, where it's just it's very human. And I think with Bert, you know, it was all about me absolutely capturing his spirit, his his everything, you know, but it's not a documentary. That's the thing. It's like people say, well, why don't you just make a documentary? And it's like, well, I'm not really a documentary filmmaker. I love making movies, I love narrative, I love telling, you know, telling stories. There's stories in documentary, but you know, I like the narrative, twists and turns and the music and all that stuff. Anyways, point being, it was sort of like as close to like a documentary of honoring his life, shooting at his house with his actual roommate Steve, who also stars in the movie, which is kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Which is hilarious and amazing. Yeah, and so And you're going, oh, what a great character. I know, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Working for this actor.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Yeah, but he's really not a character. He is not an actor playing the character. It is who he is.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Yeah, and it was just like exactly, you know, he's such a character. But no, it was just really,

Dreamers, Aging, And Identity

SPEAKER_02 7:20

you know, honoring Bert. And when the Parkinsons came into his life, because you know, truthfully, we we wanted to make a movie with Bert before he was diagnosed, as you know. So it wasn't necessarily meant to be a movie that was about Parkinson's. It was just he has Parkinson's, it became part of the character. We didn't want to hide it, we just wanted it to be a part of who he was because it is who he is. And I think it does play into some of the messaging of the film, which is, you know, as we all get older and we all have these dreams and we're kind of you know getting up there and life changes and things happen to us that are completely out of our control, like diagnosis of Parkinson's and everything else in the world, frankly. And so it's just in spite of that all, in face of it all, Bert specifically, and a lot of people hopefully are inspired by this, but Bert really always kept a real optimism and still does have this sort of like one day at a time mentality, always looks at the bright side, never gave up on being a dreamer. And even without Parkinson's, I think that's hard for people. So it's just like there's something special about that kind of person who just really keeps that beauty of that positivity alive.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Yeah, and and I think that's one of the things also that I really liked is that he doesn't let it get in the way. Like it's just not, he's just not about the Parkinsons. He's about his life. And this is an experience for me that I've I'm gonna have. I'm gonna experience this. And it doesn't, Parkinson's just doesn't come into play with it.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

You know, it's just not totally yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

It was interesting to me to see that. And I think, you know, Travis, you might be able to speak on this too a little bit. Is I I think that's how most people feel with PD. They don't want to be seen as, oh, you are PD, you are Parkinson's, this is who you are. They want to be seen as the human, as who they are as a person first, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:16

I mean yes, but it's clear once you've been around the PD block that it is an indelible heart of who you are, and that needs to be taken into consideration.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

So I guess that's where you know the difference is when I look at it. I'm going, no, he does not want to be defined, but you're saying you can't separate it, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Okay. Yes. Yeah, I think that's totally fair. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, it's just sort of like it's a part of him. It's a part of the community. I look at my dad, you know, who's he got diagnosed maybe eight years ago, I think it was something in that world. And, you know, he lives out here, and we I see him every week, and I was living with him for a year and a half when we made the movie, like I said. And it's, you know, we all know this. It's a tricky disease, and it's really kind of like I think there's a lot to unpack in this that I haven't even felt totally in this process. I think like as I'm coming out of making this movie, I've been so in it for I mean, three years for real, for real every day, but really even thinking about the movie more than that. And so, like, now that the movie's released and we're kind of at the end of the line of this film, I'm having a lot of new feelings, emotional feelings coming up about Bert, about my dad, about the fact that like, you know, I've been making this movie and it is a movie, but also it's real life. You know, Bert really has Parkinson's, you know, my dad really has Parkinson's, and I'm moving forward from this project right now, thankfully, healthy, and I don't know what my future holds, but like I'm moving on, and you know, Bert's in Assisted Living on the East Coast. And even though this is a beautiful time, even for him, he's very excited about this movie, his music's being heard. We have an album coming out next month. We have a big release of a vinyl record of the soundtrack of the movie featuring his music coming out next month. So he's very excited, but at the same time, the reality is the reality. Like, he's not playing a character with Parkinson's, you know, he's not he's not Harrison Ford playing a character. He's a man who has Parkinson's

Release Emotions And Festival Politics

SPEAKER_02 11:40

and he's progressing. And I'm glad we made this movie and it's very special, but it's not like he can shake it off and move on to the next role. This is still his life.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Right. You know, Joey, I'm glad that you brought this up about your emotional side, because I kind of wondered what this did for you, if it was confronting for you making this film and really looking at your dad, looking at Bert, where you fit in the picture. Um, because we don't know things, we don't know about there's they don't have a lot of information about genetics and you know, it's a small percentage. But I wondered if it felt a little bit confronting for you when you were doing this. And and I can see now as you're talking about it, maybe when you're in it, you're just in it as the director, but now you're reflecting on the film. So now you're on the other side. So you're a spectator, maybe. Yeah, yeah. And how does that change it as a spectator? Does that change where you are with it?

SPEAKER_02 12:48

It does because you know, when you're so consumed, and this is everyone in life, by the way, obviously, but when you're so consumed with stuff, and people purposely sometimes like consumption because it does stop you from having time to reflect and feel things, and sometimes it's scary to feel things, and it can be sad to feel things, and this and that. And I've been so consumed doing this project for many reasons. Also, the fact that like I did write it, I did direct it. You know, I wrote it with Oliver, produced with Oliver, directed, edited it. I'm my own marketing person, my own PR. I'm doing the theater bookings, I'm doing everything. I never had a second to be like not do anything. I mean, everything about this project is so DIY, and which is awesome. But now that it's like basically released and like it's sort of out of my hands at this point. I mean, we're doing press for another month to really push it out there. But other than after that, like come August, it's like the movie will find its its way. And there is there is a bittersweetness to it all. It's also been an amazing journey. It's been great to like have my dad healthy enough to attend some of the screenings and Burt Berger to even, you know, we did fly, you know, even though he was in a wheelchair, he flew him out from the East Coast for the world premiere last year in March in San Jose and for the LA premiere in May. And he was able to come for those. He's not able to really fly anymore. But like we got the tail end of him being able to travel a little bit, and so he was able to be part of the excitement and at the premiere, and it was just like I'm just I guess I'm also very thankful and grateful that my dad and Bert were healthy enough to enjoy the excitement of the release of this movie, and also it's sad because you know, with time comes progression, and I I don't know where my life goes. I I think about it a lot now where it's like I'm not married, I have no kids, I'm a struggling independent filmmaker who is making just enough to get by, teaching film school part-time. So, you know, you know, if I had you know, anyways, point being it makes you think about the future and makes things about your own life, which ultimately that's the power of you know art and work and movies and all that stuff, but it is true, and I am feeling it.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Yeah. I sort of wondered a little bit about this, and I'm curious, how does your dad has he seen the movie? And what what does he? I mean, obviously, he's been to the screening, so he's seen the movie, but did he have any comments on it? What did he think about it?

SPEAKER_02 15:08

So, yeah, I mean, this is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Even the father-son relationship, like yeah, did he wonder, is this, you know, are there feel uh is there stuff here with with a father-son relationship with you?

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Yeah, no, we have a great relationship. He he's very proud, he's very happy. It was one of those things where I was living with him when we shot the movie. I was living with him in this apartment in near uh Santa Monica when I was editing the film in my in my bedroom there. And I I was like, Dad, I don't want to show you anything. I want to really wait until it screens on the big screen of the premiere. And it was in the back of my mind, it was hard to kind of like you know have this thought of holding off on showing him because you know, I I just also didn't know when it was gonna screen. And I didn't want to my biggest fear was like, I tell him no, he can't watch the movie, and something bad happens, and he's not he's not around to watch it the following year when it when it comes out. And that was a fear and a risk that I took, and I it paid off. I was very, very, I'm I'm very lucky. He was fine, he came to the premiere, he loved it on the big screen, he's seen it a few times since. And same with Burt, by the way. The crazy thing is, I didn't show Bert anything, I didn't show him a trailer, I didn't show him a screen. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

And I just said, Bert, you're gonna see it for the very first time when we have our first screening. And he was cool with that. He he had no problem with it. And like, I mean, the screening was incredible. We're all crying our eyes out at the big world premiere at San Jose at Cinequest Film Festival. We're all crying our eyes out. It's the first time he saw it. I will give you a little backstory to the audience. We finished the film in 2023, December of 2023, the film was done. We thought that we were gonna do our festival tour 2024, and we got all rejections, 28 film festivals in a row of 2024, which was like the most heartbreaking year. And so there's so many reasons for it, and there's a lot of politics in film festivals in Hollywood, and they're not picking the best movies, they're picking who's the famous actor. Our movies in black and white. We didn't have a sales rep, we didn't have like some big agenda of the week, whatever they're trying to program. Point being, I'm sitting there with this, what I consider a beautiful, beautiful movie, and now it's done really well. But at that at that time, it was just all rejection, and I couldn't get it. I didn't understand it. And also, on top of everything, everyone gets rejected. I get that, but also I'm on a ticking clock. I'm waiting to show Bert, who's got Parkinson's and progressing. I'm waiting to show my dad, who's got Parkinson's and progressing, this movie and get it out there. And like it was extra, like I was just eating me up. I'm like, I was so angry, and then this is the first time I'm kind of saying this, honestly. I kind of tapped in this a little bit at the MPR in the MPR interview or whatever, but this is the first one really saying, like, I was angry at film festivals and how they operated and shows movies, uh, because I knew what I knew what films they were taking, and I just whatever. There's so much like other stuff that goes into it, unfortunately. But I was angry because this movie's beautiful, and also it's with people, it's with Bert who's got Parkinson's, and there is a real ticking clock to it all. And um, I'm glad it worked out in the end for the most part, but it was a very hard year that year for those reasons. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

And you were trying to honor him, and I think there's you felt a certain obligation in what you were doing to try to honor Bert and your dad with this unknown hanging over your head. What is next year gonna bring? Because clearly you've watched the progression from the time that he was first diagnosed to where he is now.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Yeah, yeah. And I wanted Bert to be able to enjoy this moment. That was my biggest thing is I really wanted Bert to be able to enjoy this moment that he's worked, he's been, you know, again, he's 72 years old now. And I would say he would agree with this. He finally has what we call a legacy, you know. This movie called Bert, starring him, featuring him, his music, his spirit, his soul. This movie's gonna outlive all of us forever. And he has this thing that's gonna be left behind that really is a love letter to him and his life and his music in a way that, like, I know he's very proud of. And I think it's you know, it all stems, I'll just say last thing, it all stems from the fact that he never gave up on being a dreamer in real life. I think him being a dreamer up until the age he is now manifested this movie coming to be, if that makes sense. And it even it's almost magical in its own way when you think about it.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Right. And you also, as a director and a film person, you also are a dreamer. This is a dream that you had. So I I think that there's the correlation there is is pretty tight.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Well, Bert and I talk on the phone still a lot. And you do?

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

Yeah, and and we relate to we're we're both dreamers.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yeah, you know, we're both dreamers.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Uh uh, the fact that we our lives, our paths crossed this way, and this is what came out of us sort of spending many years of hanging out and getting to know each other. I'll never forget it, obviously. It'll be it's it's probably gonna be one of the most special things of my entire life.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Right. Yeah, it's wonderful. And you know, I had a great time to meet Oliver as well. And I I sort of remember when he first reached out to me, and I thought, oh, okay, we better see what this movie is about, because you know, there's a lot of hokey things that happen around Parkinson's or a lot of misconceptions around Parkinson's.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

I'd like to get just a little personal with you if you're okay with this. Sure. About your dad and your relationship with your dad when you were living with him for the year and a half. Yep. Were you like a care partner to him? I guess you were a support for him in in many ways. How did that work for you as

Caregiving, Family, And Legacy

SPEAKER_01 20:40

the re-rolls may be reversing a little bit, you caring for your dad a little bit as opposed to your dad caring for you as the child?

SPEAKER_02 20:50

100%. No, and you know, when I was younger, when I was like a teenager or in college at film school, and he would support me a little bit better, a lot, he supported me a lot, but like I'd be like, Dad, I'll get you back. And I kept thinking, like, oh, I guess we're at that point now where I'm here to help him now that he's helped me so much in my younger years. He was a great father, still is a great father. But yeah, you know, where it got tough and tricky was when it got to the point where like in the middle of the night, he would yell my name and I'd have to come into his bedroom at 2 a.m. and help him. Either he's he's trying to get back in bed from the bathroom or he's stuck on the floor.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

And um he was going through a lot of emotional stuff too, of kind of like coming to terms, you know, not to get morbid, but he kept saying, you know, I'm dying, I'm dying. And like, you know, I'm like, Dad, I know I try to relax him. You're not dying. You're you know, you're not dying right now. You're just not. You're not dying right now. And like I try to calm him down. And this was, you know, this was now, you know, two and a half years ago, two years ago. So God, maybe three years ago now. Yeah, it's crazy. But um, but I also get what he meant now. I think I look back at those days and also understand that just like the sort of the just that sort of like my life. Life as I know it is dying. Everything's changing. And I I get it now what he was where he was coming from with this sort of just like there's no going back to how things were um with this with the disease progressing and just life in general. And I got it. And I think it was a it was an emotional time because and I I'm assuming you could probably relate to this duty in your own way with your husband, where it's like as much as you want, I mean, like I'm always there, but like there's also frustrations that come out of it, and you're not angry at the person, but you're frustrated at the situation, you're frustrated that you you you just want the best for them, and when they can't do something, or they even can't just get on their own two feet for a second, you you almost get angry at you're not angry at them, but you're angry at the situation. And I find myself getting there.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah, those are real care partner feelings. I mean, these are the feelings that people deal with all the time. And I really appreciate you being candid about that because a lot of people feel guilty that they have those feelings. They think as a care partner, they're not supposed to feel upset with their PD person, you know, they're they're not supposed to be upset when they don't respond the way we want them to respond, or they're not trying hard enough to go exercise or to go out and to get to socialize and all the things that we know are good for them. However, they just can't get it together to do it. And then you're kind of going, like, what is wrong with the ego? Like, why can't you do it?

SPEAKER_02 23:28

And then I think of myself though, and I'm sitting here, you know, I'm I'm you know, 42 years old, overweight, uh, not working out enough, not taking care of myself enough. And, you know, I gotta be kicking myself in the butt, you know. It's like, it's almost like it's easier said than done, you know. It's like that's anyway, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

No, I I think that's true. And it it's it's great that you've I mean, I I look at it and say, this has been a real gift for you to be able to have an opportunity, not just for Bert, but really an opportunity for your dad and for you to really come together and and to explore what this life is like. And I I'm very appreciative of it, you know. I'm appreciative that you've been so forthcoming with all of the interviews that you've done and you've been willing to talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Oh, I I appreciate that. And I remember when I did so my dad came to the uh world premiere in March last year at San Jose, and he met and Bert was there. It was the first time they met. And I think my dad, I will be honest, I think my dad was a little bit two things. One, what is he like, you know, what is what is this movie you're doing and you're you're making, you're editing in your bedroom. Like, I want to see it. You know, he really was curious. I'm like, Dad, I'm gonna wait till the premiere. I want you to, I can't wait for you to see it, but I'm gonna hold off. He was very curious. I think he was a little maybe slightly jealous, like, oh, you're making a movie about this guy? What about your dad? You know? And I think there was a little bit of that. And I think every time I talked about Bert before I ever met Bert, or he ever saw the movie, he was always a little like, I think a little jealous about it. But then after the movie in San Jose, he's like, Can I get a picture with Bert? Yeah, he got a big picture with Bert and he loved Bert. And it was just one of those things where they they really bonded. And Bert's a great guy. Bert's like, you know, they were like almost like not soul sisters, but like soul brothers, I guess. You know, yeah, they had they had a moment. And uh, after my dad saw the movie and met Bert there last year in San Jose, it was really fun and getting pictures together and him being excited, and it all came together. Everyone got it. You know, Oliver's parents came out and saw it from Ohio. My mom was there, my stepdad is it was just like one of those things where it's like we're talking about this movie for a couple years, and it was an extra year because we had that whole year of 2024 where you didn't get any film festival. So finally, it just sort of all unraveled this one special day. And Bert got a standing ovation, and everyone's crying, and everyone's excited and happy, and the whole audience, everyone's teary-eyed, and Bert giving a great little speech. And it was just one of those wonderful special days.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yeah, really wonderful. Well, on that note, I just want to say thank you so much for joining us. And the one thing I want to say, you've you've won a lot of awards. You did get into many different film festivals. I did finally winning, finally, winning lots and lots of awards. Yeah. And I think it's so great. And, you know, as representing just myself as a care partner for someone with Parkinson's, but also representing Parkinson's Community LA, PCLA, I really I'm so honored that we got to be part of this journey with you. I I just want to thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure. And I'm looking forward to lots of more chatter about Bert. And I keep watching to see where I'm seeing your name pop up and uh checking social. And for those of you that are listening, and and you know, we have people from all over the world. Hopefully, you can download the movie, check it

Where To Watch And Support

SPEAKER_01 26:45

out. It's really fantastic, and I think you'll enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Yeah, thank you. And it's very simple. The easiest thing, if they just want to go to the website, it's just B-U-R-T, burthemovie.com, and you can find all the information there. Watch the trailer. And no, Judy, it's been it's been really great bonding with you. And I think we had a great time on the Fox 11 news together last week. Yes, it was fun. A really special interview as well, uh, for me as well.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Yeah, no, for me as well. It was great.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Yeah, thank you for everything. We'll definitely keep the conversation going. And I hope everyone who's listening gets a chance to, you know, enjoy the movie and we'll just keep the conversation going.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Great. And looking forward to seeing it again in the theater. Thanks so much, Joe.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Thanks, guys. And that's a wrap bing. Thank you, Travis. I appreciate you guys having me on.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Yeah, happy to have you.