EP-140 Sixty-Five Stilettos And Zero Motorcycles

Welcome And Why Grief Matters

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to I'm Not Dead Yet with Judy and Travis, a podcast about living an extraordinary life with extraordinary circumstances.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Welcome to the I'm Not Dead Yet Podcast. I'm your co-host, Travis Robinson. I was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease at age thirty five in 2014.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

And I'm Judy Yaris, your other co-host. My husband Sandy had Parkinson's disease for 18 years. I was his care partner.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

This evening the episode will be talking about grief and morning of our.

When Loss Hits All At Once

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Yes. Going into this. And last year was the end of last year was certainly not pretty, was difficult, but the whole year last year was really fucked up. I mean, let's face it. From the time your house burnt down to the time that your DBS batteries died on you. It was a rough year for you.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

And your partner Sarah. I mean, it's been a very rough time.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

We have had our challenges. And then this part of what makes me look now to the future with some unhappy thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

So what are those thoughts, Travis? You know, everybody turns to you. What would Travis do? We'd have that saying that is always in the sport group, whether you're there or not. But what are those thoughts? Because you're usually so positive and you always try to take a bright look at what's going on. But it sounds to me now like you're in a little bit of a darker place right at the moment. Am I right? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

And in the realization that I won't get to spend long the things that I love to do Okay Like give examples Riding my mounder cycle Okay I don't have one anymore but I did then for years I loved that bike and now the idea of getting another one is out of range for me and I'm going through my tools lag thereof and thinking well is it really worth replacing some of them when I don't know how much longer I will be able to use them.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

And those aren't tools that are just for the motorcycle, these are tools in general, the type of things that you do on a daily basis. Tools that you use for your art, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Yes. My well learned machine tools.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Yes. So so that's it makes sense to me that it you would finally at this point, now that you're sort of coming to this reckoning day of of looking at this and taking a really hard look of reality, saying, it's not gonna happen. I'm just not gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_03 8:46

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

So what are you doing for yourself to help you get through these moments? And I guess my I do have a question here I'm gonna ask. Is it moments? Is it uh hours? Is it days? Has it been weeks? Has it been a few months? Where are you with this?

SPEAKER_02 9:15

It's been mostly moments, but they come closer and closer together and it is really hard, especially like right now when I have nothing to do but sit around and think of the tools that I don't have.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Because all of them got destroyed in the fire, right? Right. Okay. So it's really in your face right now.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Have you done some writing about it or have you talked with Sarah about it? What what have you been trying to do? What strategies have you been using? Or maybe you haven't been using any. That's okay too. I mean, let's let's be real here, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

I haven't done much writing and learned of that. I've had a lot of trauma typing the last tweaker too.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Okay. So that's just adding insult to injury here.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

I'm wondering if you could do some voice activating recording that could transcribe it for you.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

No, I'm trying that already. My voice is too flexing. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

I wondered about that. I wondered if that was something that would work for you or not. But it seems like it wouldn't. I don't think in all the years that I've known you that I've really heard this come from out of you, that I've I've heard you get to this place that I've heard you feel quite so down about it. And I guess to some people, they might go, oh, well, motorcycles are so dangerous anyway. Like, why would you want to be on a motorcycle? But I have to say, I have ridden on a motorcycle. This is long before there was the helmet law, like in the early 70s. And it was pretty cool and pretty fun. So I and I even was very pregnant at the time when I did it with my first child. And I remember thinking, this is the coolest thing and the most fun I've ever done. Shooting up PCH on the back of a motorcycle. And um so I I really get it, you know, I get that sense of freedom and the power that comes with that. So I understand, you know, how that must feel.

Letting Go Of Old Identities

SPEAKER_01 13:10

But then, you know, without making light of this, I'm wrestling with something very similar myself that's not exactly the same. But it it's also a loss. And I'm trying to come to grips with it. I haven't hit the reality that you have right now. Like your reality is, yeah, there's no way I'm going to buy another motorcycle. I'm just not going to do it. Right. And it's not going to happen. And I'm going through this because I have not been on an outdoor bike in probably four years. And I am just dying to start riding outside again. I've been doing all indoor riding and training. But I know my family thinks I'd be crazy to get back outside again. And there's part of me that also thinks it's been four years. Do I think I could really ride again the way I used to ride? I mean, I think I'm pretty strong. I feel like I have a pretty good sense of balance. But is my balance really good enough to be back on a road bike? And I'm struggling with that myself right now. And I have the bike. It's not like I don't have it. I've got two actually. And I'm thinking to myself, why is it there? Why, why, why is it hanging up? And why am I keeping it if I'm not going to ride it? But you know me well, Travis, and you know I have a rather extensive shoe collection. And so I have probably 65 pairs of stilettos in a closet that I know I will never ever wear again. But I just can't give them up yet.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

And so it's that, it's the fear of letting go of who we were, right? Is that do you feel that? Is that what you're getting from it?

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Yes. And it is really painful when who you were makes you who you are.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Right. But you're still that person. Like I feel like I'm still that person in stilettos. It's just I wouldn't want to have to walk further than across the room in them. It'd be so painful for me right now. So I think it's hard because what we're talking about really is acceptance of self and being present with who we are now.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Right, but I think that there's more to it because I know for me that if I hadn't been the guy who rock climbed very much and was the guy I would not have met Sarah.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

So there's part of me that is reluctant to give up that climbing guide personality because it's made me who I am Yes, but here's my question Do you have to give up your climbing?

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Well that's the thing is do I buy all my gear again and justify those purchases when the years that I'm likely to use them are short.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Okay. But do you know for a fact that the years are short on using that climbing gear? I mean, we know the motorcycle is out. That's a different story. But on the climbing gear, realistically, there's that whole movement now that like upending Parkinson's, they're doing indoor climbing, but they're also doing outdoor climbing. Is there a world where you could still be climbing with your PD? Maybe not the way you used to climb, but climbing a little differently.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Maybe climbing, but not climbing the Alpine cutting edge climbing that I was doing and that upsets me immensely.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Of course. Because inside Travis, you'll always be that alpine climber.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

That's not going anywhere. That's with you. So on one level, it's we're talking about being more practical. And certainly you have to get a new house set up. You're building your new house. You're gonna need furniture. There's a lot of things you're going to need to go into this house. So I can see where it could be really, really hard to justify making these purchases to do the little bit of climbing that you might end up doing. Right. And that's I think where you might be wrestling with this. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. So probably the old Travis, let's let's kind of look at the old Travis, would have said, fuck it, I'm gonna buy it, and I'm just gonna climb, and that's just what I'm gonna do. And the new Travis who has become, I wouldn't say, I don't think it's being realistic, more reflective, perhaps, more conscious of different needs that you may have now, is going. Do I just say fuck it and throw caution to the wind? Or do I really think about this and give it some serious thought? And since you do have a partner, have you discussed it with Sarah? What does she think? I mean, you may not want to share this. She may not want you sharing this in such an open forum. But I I'm I'm curious. You don't have to answer that if you don't want to.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Sarah thinks that there's a whole lot of things we need to buy to replace what was La Stand. She has different priorities than some of my hobby specific things, and I unfortunately no longer have the discretion. Income to be able to just say fuck it and go buy it. Right. And that is really hard.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

It's very hard because you're faced with this reality that is taking something that you love so dearly, that's such an a critical part of you that is within you, and saying, I can't do it right now.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Yes.

Parkinson’s As A Crash Course

SPEAKER_01 22:42

So I get it, Travis. I do. I mean, I don't know what the solution is. I don't know that there is a solution because usually you come up with a great solution. You sort of process and work through it until you find it. But I think this is one that's gonna be a little more challenging and is more challenging for you.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Yes, because I feel that it's only going to be more and more things like this.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

But if you can try to put it into perspective for the moment, for the here and now, I think you might be able to come to a place where you can say, well, right now, I have to wait on this. I can't just replace those things. I have to make sure that now we're gonna have a roof over our head, but there are certain things we're going to need, certain furniture and possibly other clothing and other things that you both may need. And you both have artistic hobbies and very artistic lifestyles.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Yes, and there are bills associated with those very soon. Yes. And there are things that I can still do with my PD, but there are others that either I can do them or I can do them without the tools The tools, right? I had and like so many people who have built a collection of kids over many many years I am looking now at how much it'll cost me to go out and buy it all brand of picking it up from time to time as I find it on Craigslist ebayan swap meets right and that is just painful because I know that I don't have another twenty twenty five years to build the collection of stuff that I had.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Well, you may have another twenty, twenty-five years to build it, but the question is is that what you want to do for the next 20, 25 years? And is that is that the logical thing to do to rebuild that collection? Right. I mean, do you think you can take, can you segment it and and like break it into different areas of what these specialties were that you did, and maybe pick one or two where you could. I mean, I I know this, it sounds like I'm simplifying this, and I don't mean to do that, Travis, at all. So I'm not discounting it. But if there were a way of just picking one or two things that you felt like you could you see a future for yourself with it. I guess that's maybe that's what it is, Travis. I'm just thinking out loud here. Maybe it's that you've lost sight of your future, which you've never really talked about that in a way that you're talking about tonight.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Yes, it is very disheartening for me to think about the future because I know that it is going to be a further in further reduction of a bill.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

And I know that that's the part that you're mourning. That's that's where the grief is.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

So from my perspective, I guess, I feel like the only thing you can do at this moment is really try to get back into this place of acceptance and where you are right now, so that you can give yourself time to figure out how you're going to approach this future. Because you've never really talked about the future in a way of like, you know, you've always said you have always said this is a disease of loss. We've talked about that. You've expressed that many times to many people, but you've never really talked about future the way you're talking tonight. I've never heard you, and I've known you a long time now, it's probably 10 years. I feel like I've known you at least maybe 10 years. So I feel like I've never heard you talk about it this way. So I I can see and hear you that you're in a different place tonight. You're in a different space. And I'm not saying that's bad to be in this space. Like I think, in a way, Travis, this might be really good for you to kind of be okay with being in this space for a little while and kind of processing what it all means and what you're gonna do with it. Because there's probably different things you can do with it. I mean, I I'm in my last probably 25. You know, I'm I'm in the some people, uh my son's friend called it overtime, and uh I probably am in overtime, but you know, I'm looking at it going, okay, like what are the things I can do and and what I can't do.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

And it's which of those things that you can do are really important for you to do, though.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Right, right, right. Like I I know, I mean, and I I have FOMO, you know, and I I'm sure you get FOMO when you see rock climbing. I get FOMO when I see a group of people, cyclists riding through on a Sunday morning or Saturday morning. And I'm going, I know what that feels like. It's exhilarating and it feels great, and I want to feel that again. But will I? Will I at this point in my life? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

Right, and will you imbalancing that desire with the other competing desires to spend as much time with your grandkids and with your family and all of the other things that you do on a regular basis?

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Yeah. I mean, it's we're coming from different places, but we're sort of arriving at the same space on a different plane. Does that make sense? It's a little esoteric to say it that way, but I don't know how else to say it. And that's why I can relate so much to what you're saying when we talk about, you know, the future of who I am. Like I always feel like, oh, I'm still the same person.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Right. But then I look at a photograph and I go, yeah, no, I'm not that person. I mean, I mean, I'd like to think I

Practicing Acceptance Without Giving Up

SPEAKER_01 32:50

am mentally, but I'm not, you know? So I think that's the hard part for us. But then in order to feel satisfied and feel joy and feel fulfilled and feel happy, I have to be okay. That this is just what it is right now at this moment.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Right. And there is a part of me that's like, well, you've never shied away from having the buckle down and train and I know that if I train my ass off if it becomes the one thing that I want to do, I can still do some of the climbing that I used to do. Yes, but I don't know that it will be ultimately worth it for me to do that any more Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

So that's different.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

Yes, but it's really the same thing. It's a resource problem. I don't have enough money to get the gear I want. I don't have enough time energy or oomph to train on all the things that I want to train on I mean Judy you've heard me say it before but fifteen years ago I was fighting three days a week in full contact martial arts climbing every fucking weekend and managing to ride a motorcycle. I was full time Freemason master of my launch and still had time to do other shit like work a day job and all the other nonsense and I just don't see myself doing any of that as good as I wanted or even if I choose that one thing will I be that good at it?

SPEAKER_01 35:57

You know what, Travis? You won't. You probably won't be that good. You won't be the same good. It's not that you won't be good, but you're not gonna be the same good that you were 15 years ago. You're just not. I mean, that's the reality of just life. That's aside from your Parkinson's, that's something that people face every day. When someone turns 50, they go, Holy shit, I I can't, I can't do and they're playing basketball with 20-year-olds, and they're going, I can't play like that. You know, I'm in good shape, I work out, all these things that people say. But then when they really get on the court, they see that they're not what they were in their 20s. So part of that is, no, we're never going to be able to be exactly who we were before. But can we be good enough where we are right now?

SPEAKER_02 36:59

Right, Dan. Even though I recognize it something that happens to everyone, it feels like PD is giving me this crash course in aging. And it's like I feel like, damn it, I should not have to be dealing with this at this level now.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

I agree with you, Travis, a hundred percent. You it's something that you have no control over, and it has definitely been a big motherfucker in your face. Okay, there's no other way of describing it, right? Yeah, no other way of describing it. And and I mean, I just know it's like, yeah, you should not have had this, you should not have it. You did not ask for it, you didn't do anything to make yourself have it. But the reality is you have it. Here you are, and it is disappointing, and it is sad and heartbreaking for me as your friend, for for for yourself, as you are mourning the loss of who you were, but I still maintain that at some point we have to figure out how to be okay with where we are, with PD or without PD.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yes, you are very right, Judy, in that not being okay with it doesn't help us with it.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

No.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

And so being or learning to be okay with where we are now today is really the only option that we have. Sometimes, however, it's more of a bitch than other times.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Yep. I totally agree. And you know, it makes me want to invite Dr. DeGold back on the show to really talk about this. About how do we come to grips with this? How do we get into the acceptance that this is what it is? Whether we like it or not, whether we asked for it, which we didn't, but here we are. And now, what are the tools that we need to make it okay for ourselves? What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Yes, I think that anyone in Dr. Gold's position would have some tools, or at least I would hope that they would for that acceptance. But I just wanted to say that some days acceptance is just elusive and hard to grasp and I'm working on being okay with not being okay with everything for today.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Good. That's all you can do, Travis. You can't do more than work on it. That's for I say that to myself all the time. I I can't change the wrinkles on my face. I can't change the shoulder that's still irritated when I'm doing downward dogs and I or the knees that sometimes get a little creaky here. But I can just change my attitude and just say, okay, what are my options? I'm not gonna stop trying to do the things I love to do, but I'm gonna

Grief Resurfaces During Rebuilding

SPEAKER_01 41:40

have to adapt some more. And I'm willing to do that because I want to be able to live my life feeling positive rather than feeling negative. And I mean, we've talked about this, you know, we we both allow ourselves a pity party here and there, you know. And I've had my moments where it's just like it slaps you in the face, and you're going, wait a minute, not right now. But here we are, and here you are. Here you are 11 years later, and we both know John Ball, who's had PD for 50 years, who ran Marathons and Iron Man and did so much, and he's still going. And somehow, regardless of what happened over the years to him and whatever challenges he's faced and obstacles along the way, he somehow has always come back to this place of acceptance of being able to do it and being okay with where he is. Not that he likes it necessarily all the time. And that's what I'm saying to you. You don't have to like it. You don't have to lay down and say, okay, this is it. Take me. I I'm done. You know, PD, you can take my life. But you don't have to do that. You still have the fight there, you still have the martial arts in you to kick ass. You may not be able to physically do it, but I bet mentally it's there and you can do it. So that's all I can say to you is that I I know that this is probably the hardest thing for you. And it's uh, you know, people are think about you know what it must have been like initially when you lost your home and everything in it. But I think the hard part is now. Yes. I think the reality, Travis, is the hard part. Is not the initial loss. It's now as you are starting to look at moving back into your old neighborhood into a new space that's going to feel very unfamiliar, but it's yours. And that maybe that's why all of this stuff is coming up for you now. And I can tell you, grieving the loss of Sandy, and I've had many more moments of feeling deep grief in the last six months than I had five years ago, six years ago. It's weird to me that I've had these overwhelming moments where I just can't believe I feel so low with it. And it feels so deep for me. And it's not fresh, it's not new. But I think something triggers it for us. And right now you're in that space that you're being once again expected to be challenged to go. Oh, I'm so excited. I'm moving into my new house. But you're not moving all your stuff with you.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

All your collections. All the gear that I realized I was leaning on having that.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

Yes. Yes. So maybe that's what's triggering all of this now, this new sense of loss. It's really not new loss. This is maybe the old loss that is resurfacing, maybe a little bit in a different way. It's a different kind of loss.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

Yes. And like I said, it's also hitting at the same time. I'm feeling low resources in terms of time, energy, and effort.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

And then shit like the battery dying. It puts me into a spook of okay, this is a snapshot of my future.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Right. But we don't know what the future brings, Travis. And that's the part of Parkinson's that we have the hope, and we know that we have these amazing doctors and researchers that are doing incredible work. And we don't know what new breakthrough is gonna happen. And so we have to just keep looking at the now.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Yes, this is true.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

I mean, I think this is the hard part of having PD is how to live in the now and not get caught up in what the future is going to be. Because you really don't know. And there could be, I mean, I always say this, you know, there could be an amazing breakthrough. I could also cross the street and get hit by a truck, you know, and then it's all over. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

So yes, there is the unknown in the future. Right. And I do my best to stay focused on the fact that I don't know what it will bring because it's very easy for me to say Well I don't know what the future brings, but it's worse than today and I feel like a lot of folks with Pave that diminishing view of the future that this is as good as it gets and this ain't that good.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

Yes. A lot of people feel that way. But there are people that also feel like it's okay if it feels that way right now. Right. And you've always been one of those people.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

Yes, and I still maintain I'm not dead yet. So you're still here, you're not dead yet, Travis. As long as I am, I can still keep swinging.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

Yes, you can.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

But I shit, Judy, some days it's just a bitch.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

I get it.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

And on that note, we can wrap it up. That's a wrap. Bing.